SAUSD's Amplifying Leadership Podcast

3. Paying for Success: The Game-Changing Model of Outcomes-Based Contracting

• Bianca Barquin • Season 1 • Episode 3

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If SAUSD's new outcomes-based contracting initiative had a face, it would be that of our incredible guest, Jennifer Cisneros, the Dynamic Director of Expanded Learning at SAUSD. Jennifer takes us on an engrossing journey into the world of outcomes-based contracting in education, an innovative approach that focuses on paying for results rather than just services. This game-changing model is not just about fiscal responsibility, but also about ensuring the quality of services, with the ultimate aim of nurturing student success. 

Dive deep as Jennifer unveils how the Expanded Learning Department at SAUSD is revolutionizing the learning landscape with outcomes-based contracting. Discover the thoughtful planning that goes behind allocating potential payouts and setting goals that reflect the values of the district. Also, gain insights into how personalized learning plans are tailored to the needs of each student, promising a learning experience that is as unique as every child. 

But what's an innovative approach without some challenges? Jennifer candidly discusses potential roadblocks and how they're being addressed. She talks about the significant role of measurement and evaluation in outcomes-based contracting, the metrics used, and the potential of using SEL data to measure the impact of tutoring services on students' self-efficacy and agency. And we wrap up our conversation celebrating the ripple effects of Jennifer's leadership and her unwavering commitment to student success. This episode is more than just a conversation; it's a testament to the power of innovative thinking in shaping the future of education.

Visit us at our Buzzsprout site for more ways to listen, links to our social media sites and any referenced materials, and complete transcripts of our full-length episodes: https://bit.ly/SAUSDAmplifyingLeadership

Bianca Barquin:

Hello and welcome back to SAUSD's Amplifying Leadership. I'm your host, Bianca Barquin, the Assistant Superintendent of Teaching and Learning for the Santa Ana Unified School District. At SAUSD, we believe in pushing boundaries and exploring groundbreaking avenues to improve educational experiences for our students. Today, we're diving into a captivating topic: outcomes-based contracting in our Expanded Learning Program. What is it? How will this avant-garde approach elevate our students' journey while ensuring fiscal responsibility? Buckle up as we unfold these layers with a very special guest. Joining us today is Jennifer Cisneros, the dynamic Director of Expanded Learning here at SAUSD. Jennifer's dedication and innovative insights have been instrumental in ushering in this new wave of transformation in our district. Jennifer, thank you for joining me today. For our listeners who might be new to the concept, can you briefly explain what outcomes-based contracting means, especially in the context of education?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yes, thank you for having me today. Outcomes-based contracting, and let's just call it OBC for short, is an innovative approach to working with vendors that shifts us to paying for outcomes, not just services. What does that mean? Essentially, it means that a significant portion of the total payment of the vendor is earned only as students achieve outcomes. The vendor is only going to get paid if students are successful. Let's use tutoring as an example, and in this example we're going to allocate $1,000, the typical tutoring service is about $1,200 per student for high-impact tutoring. In an outcomes-based contracting model you have to allocate a portion of the funding to a base payment. So the tutoring service needs to get paid for students in seats for receiving tutoring services, just for their own standard operation. That would be a base payment. For this $1,000 example, we're going to say 40% of it is going to go towards a base payment. So 40% of $1,000 is $400. So $400 for students sitting in seats getting tutoring services. Now what happens to the remaining $600? We have to determine what our payment outcomes are. A payment outcome is indicators of student success that are tied to payment. Remember, the purpose of OBC is to pay for outcomes. So if we're offering tutoring, let's say it's focused on math tutoring, and the district determines the outcomes we want for students as a result of tutoring is: 1. conditional percentile growth in MAP, and, 2. proficiency in the state assessment, our SBAC assessment. We can now tie payments to our identified outcomes. So for easy math, no pun intended, let's say we are assigning $300 of that, $600 to conditional percentile growth and the remaining $300 is going to go towards the SBAC assessment, the proficiency assessment.

Jennifer Cisneros:

And let's take a student. We're gonna play this out in an example. So we're gonna have Student A and let's say Student A is Xavier. Xavier is gonna attend tutoring. He is going to attend for whatever the dosage of tutoring is and he's sitting in the seat, he's receiving tutoring services; the vendor's gonna get paid $400 for Xavier attending the program. But Xavier ends up hitting his conditional percentile growth target and he also scores proficient on the SBAC. That vendor is going to receive $1,000 for Xavier participating in tutoring services. It's a win-win: Xavier achieves his goals in reaching his outcomes. The vendor gets the maximum payout for that service. Now let's take Student B. Student B, we'll call him Dan. Dan attends tutoring, sits in the seat, gets tutoring services. Vendor gets paid their $400, but Dan hits his conditional percentile growth. That is a student achievement outcome, right. So Dan hits that growth. But unfortunately Dan did not score proficient in the state assessment. That vendor only will get paid then $700 for Dan because only one outcome was met.

Bianca Barquin:

So it really makes me think about a couple of things. One it makes me think about how thoughtful we have to be in planning whenever we're working with our partners or working with vendors. And, to be honest with you, I don't think we've ever been in that space before I think we plan with them and we talk to them, but not necessarily in terms of goal setting the way we're doing it here. It's way different from anything I've ever heard before. Which leads me to my next question how has contracting traditionally worked in the educational landscape, and what shifts are we observing with outcomes-based models?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yeah, so traditional contracting, which probably everybody listening to this podcast is very familiar with, and we're just going to keep an example of tutoring. So in this traditional contracting model it's very service delivery driven. Typically it's going to be something like a vendor saying we charge $30 an hour per tutoring session and if the student attends this tutoring session then the vendor gets paid. Accountability is not built into that contract. On whether the service was effective and impactful for the student, it doesn't matter, the student attended, the vendor gets paid. The shift we're seeing with an OBC model is that it's more evidence-based and focused, like it's actually centered on students achieving outcomes. It's being very clear on what we value as a district, what's important to us and what we expect, and only paying if that expectation is met.

Bianca Barquin:

So . I'm so excited. This is exactly where we're moving towards and it's going to help every single student actualize what we want them to in terms of the graduate profile. Perfect. So my next question is how is SAUSD's expanded learning department using outcomes- based contracting?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yeah, so we were approached as a district a while ago to be part of a team, to be part of a cohort, and time and space were a challenge and we were really disappointed that we weren't part of the first cohort. But opportunity came back around and we formed a cross-disciplinary team to participate in an OBC cohort that is led by the Southern Education Foun dation and their consulting agency, Third Sector, and we have had this team really go through a six-month process of learning about outcomes-based contracting while designing our first request for proposal for this type of contract. And I have to say the team that we have assembled has been pretty phenomenal: Dr. Emily Wolk, our Executive Director of Research and Evaluation, Diana Torres, Executive Director of Teaching and Learning, Michael Esparza, our Director of Purchasing, Lupita Cruz, our Assistant Director of Expanded Learning, and myself. Just such a dynamic team bringing different lens and focus to this project. And through the expansion of our after-school program and really the investment from the state in Expanded Learning Opportunities Program, that ELOP funding that everybody has heard about, and we're talking about and we've been planning for? Part of that planning, we invested $3 million for targeted one-on-one tutoring and there's a whole tutoring plan in there that that's just one part of it, and through this process we determined that these services we're targeting 3000 students in grades three through five who are at or below the 40th percentile on NWEA math reading growth and who are identified as an English learner and or foster youth and or McKinney- Vento. And we're really looking at two cohorts of providing high-impact tutoring, with 1500 students targeted in the fall and 1500 students targeted in the spring.

Jennifer Cisneros:

Now I got to talk a little bit about the math, right, because a lot of this is about, like, the outcomes. And so the question is earlier I talked about this base payment, I talked these outcomes, you know, payments tied to outcomes, and so what we're doing here in Santa Ana, and it was a very extensive process that we went through to try to tackle these outcomes; we are allocating a potential payout, r emember, potential depends on if students achieve outcomes or not, of $1,380 per student. That's how much money a vendor could potentially earn with only $450 allocated towards base payment. So students actually receiving the service, $930 is designated for payment outcomes. That is a lot of money when you really think about it. Remember, earlier I said, most vendors for tutoring it's like $1,200 per student is what they get paid hour for hour. The student receives tutoring. They get paid. In this model, only $450 is going to base payment. That's insane.

Jennifer Cisneros:

But we had to really talk about, through this process, like what is important to us, like what is it when we think about student achievement, what is important to us? And so we identified four outcomes that are all tied to payment for these vendors. First one, mid-level growth, so a student hitting 51 to 65 percent conditional growth and NWEA. High-level growth for 66 plus conditional growth. We're focusing on a phonics proficiency and we're focusing on reading fluency and using DIBELS and the BPST. We're currently in the middle of the RFP process. We actually just finished scoring proposals this week and have been working with purchasing to get the final recommendations up for board approval on September 26th. So we're really excited. We're... and implementation for these tutoring services is going to start pretty soon after that.

Bianca Barquin:

Pretty amazing. So I go back to the thoughtfulness behind this whole process. In order for us to be able to interact when we're thinking about OBC with contractors, we're going to have to take this integrated approach right, where you bring all of these folks to the table: Research and Evaluation, other folks, Teaching and Learning, everybody to the table to try to figure out what the outcomes are that we want to achieve, and learner-centered. So thank you for that, which leads me to my next question for you. Research has indicated that outcomes-based models can be more focused on the needs of the students. How do you perceive this alignment and what tangible benefits can our students expect from this?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yeah, student needs are rooted in a more personalized and student-centric approach in an OBC model. For consistency, we'll continue with tutoring. It's our original example. It's what we're doing as a district to kind of pioneer this concept. By having specific student outcomes, the vendors can identify individual learning plans that will help students achieve those outcomes. So it's being really clear and really focused so that personalization can happen. If done well and vendors align with the district, the tangible benefits are great. One, there's clear expectations for students in their learning. Two, there's increased SEL competencies in areas like student agency, increased motivation and engagement, just to name a few.

Bianca Barquin:

Thank you. The next area I want to get into is really based on what we experienced at last night's board meeting Really listening to Ron Hacker talk to us about our budget. So let's talk a little bit about fiscal responsibility. One of the highlights of this approach is fiscal prudence. Can you elaborate on how this contracting method ensures we get the best value for our investments and how it guarantees accountability from our partners?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yeah, OBC is a partnership approach that really focuses on achieving, as we said, the specific results rather than just delivering the service. One of the key advantages which really drew us to this model is its potential for fiscal responsibility and accountability. So, for example, there is an emphasis on results. I feel like I'm gonna beat that in, you know, through this process, but the vendor is literally incentivized to deliver the desired outcomes both efficiently and effectively. Otherwise they literally won't be paid. Another example is the outcomes are clearly defined and measurable at the forefront, so there's a lot of clarity about what's expected. That allows us to build in regular systems to monitor and evaluate the services and determine like is the vendor on track to achieve the intended targets?

Jennifer Cisneros:

One thing about OBC that needs to kind of be said is there is risk sharing, so there is some accountability on the district. I know in the conversation that we're having, it seems like all the responsibility and the risk is on the vendor. There is some mechanisms, that is a shared risk between both contracting parties, but this does also encourage, because the risk is there, it encourages the vendor to be more responsible for their performance and take responsibility for their performance, and there's an inherent focus and value. So it shifts us away from the focus on outputs to the actual value that's created for our students, going back to being centered on students, and what are the outcomes? This ensures that our investment in tutoring is aligned, ultimately, with the goals of the district.

Jennifer Cisneros:

And the last thing, OBC encourages vendors to focus on the quality of their service. A lot of times it's about meeting the contractual obligations, and here the contractual obligations are the outcomes, and so it really forces them actually to focus on quality for long-term success and sustainability. When we think about all the funding that has been pushed and you alluded to it last night in the board meeting, we talked a lot about the pandemic all the funding that came to districts as a result of the pandemic, and a lot of it has expiration dates. Some have already expired. And so we really have to think like student needs are still gonna continue beyond the life cycle of the funding and we have to think differently. We have to think differently. We have to think about how to stretch our dollars to have the most impact on students, and OBC is one way for us to do that.

Bianca Barquin:

I love it. I really do think that this process or way of operating is so thoughtful on both sides, on the district side as well as our partners. So now let me ask you about measuring success. With an outcomes focus, measurement and evaluation are paramount. What mechanisms or metrics are we employing to ensure that we're on the right track?

Jennifer Cisneros:

First and foremost, Research and Evaluation must be a part of the process. Additionally, us Expanded Learning folks like we are not the Teaching and Learning experts. We are very, very upfront about that. So TNL also has to be involved in the process. In collaborating with Diana Torres, our Executive Director for Teaching and Learning, she really helped our team understand what was most important, based on the data that Research and Eval provided, but from a student learning perspective, and so that really helped us go through the process and determine what our outcome metric should be. Dr. Emily Wolk was really instrumental in helping us determine ways to leverage current data collection systems, like, we didn't want to create new things to start to measure and add. So metrics are really grounded in already existing data systems and collection processes, and the way we're assessing student achievement. And so things like the MAP you know, is tied. Conditional percentile growth is tied to MAP assessments, which is already embedded in our assessment calendar. We have DIBELS that's already embedded in there, the BPST, so.

Jennifer Cisneros:

But another metric, something that's really interesting that we are paying attention to we didn't really tie it to payment outcome, although we have seen some models in other county offices that are dabbling in this work is really looking at SEL data and what the impact is to a student's SEL competencies as they start to feel more successful, as they start to hit achievement goals. So do we see changes in how students respond to SEL survey data in relation to, like, self-efficacy or agency based on them going through tutoring? We're going to be paying attention to that. Dr. Wolk and I have had a lot of conversations. Right now it's we're calling it kind of a process outcome, so it's something we're just looking at and, truthfully, it could be something that we talk about adding in as a payment outcome in the future, so that there's an expectation that there is an SEL outcome tied to tutoring services.

Bianca Barquin:

What I love about this is all of the outcomes and all of the metrics that you're mentioning, even the process ones that we're talking about are all things that align to our Graduate Profile and are going to help us actualize the Graduate Profile, one, but two, they are all aligned with our high board priority metrics, right, and everything we talked to the board about. So perfect alignment. Now, every innovative approach comes with its challenges. What are some potential roadblocks you foresee and how are we prepared to address them?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yeah, we were initially really nervous that we would release this OBC tutoring RFP (Request for Proposal) and we wouldn't get any proposals or responses that it was going to be too innovative, it was going to be too much of a risk for vendors to try to throw their name in the hat, but they did. They did, they came out. We had 20 responses to our OBC RFP for ELA tutoring and really, as we kind of reflect, Dr. Wolk and I, we've been on this journey together for a really long time, even pre-pandemic. We think that it's really because it was clear, like, people knew what they were getting into, and we also think that it's attracting vendors who truly believe that they can help students achieve outcomes. Now, a potential roadblock is really getting or ensuring that the students are going to show up. So, as we've gone through this process and have been part of the cohorts and have learned from Cohort One, we know a handful of districts nationally that are doing this type of work and all of them are pushing their tutoring models into the school day. We are focusing our implementation after school, which requires us to find creative ways to incentivize students to attend. I am not above bribing students for their own good. We're trying to find ways to leverage parents and their guardians to ensure that kids attend, etc. You know, if a student already is having low self-agency, them seeking out or accessing a tutoring services is not highly likely. And so we really have to find ways to motivate students to participate, you know, once they're identified as part of the target group. One of the things we are going to be doing is we will be asking site administrators for support in these efforts and seeking their expertise on how to mitigate this issue and these challenge and other potential challenges that are going to come up.

Jennifer Cisneros:

In previous implementation tutoring efforts that we've had, you know, some of the things that we've discovered that are really key learnings for us is, one, there has to be a shared, continuous recruitment and communication effort with the site administration, with teachers, our own expanded learning staff. There has to be a collective appreciation of the importance of high-impact tutoring. We need an incentive plan for students that is integrated maybe with some of the school day; there's some school day incentives and afterschool incentives. So really working collaboratively to figure out how do we build that plan. And then we have to work together with the school community to figure out how do we really actively engage and involve our parents and guardians and understanding the importance of and the benefits that their children can gain from participating in our tutoring program.

Jennifer Cisneros:

You know, while we are leaning into these areas, we are planning for implementation of OBC tutoring. If anyone has any good ideas that they want to add, like reach out, Everyone should know how to get a hold of me. If not, you know we can figure that out. But part of the OBC approach does include an adoption of a continuous quality improvement mindset. So as we hit bumps in the road, which we will, we anticipate that, we will be looking at how to improve and tweak things in the future, and so feedback will be really critical throughout the process. This is new for all of us. Part of our responsibility, we have responsibilities to the vendors and, like I said, there's shared risk-taking and so there are some things we have to do and make sure happen in conditions we have to create. So we'll have to work through all those logistics.

Bianca Barquin:

So the resounding theme that I kept hearing as you're answering the question is collective impact, right? And going back to that risk sharing and what is our role and responsibility in this new approach? The other partner I think we can bring to the table within our own system is family and community engagement, and seeing what Lisa and her team can do to support our efforts. I think this is amazing. Last question I have for you, Jennifer: as we embrace this new approach, what are your hopes and visions for the future of the expanded learning program in SAUSD?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yeah. So in relation to OBC, this concept in this model, my hope is that the expanded learning department will set the tone for how effective and impactful this model can really be, so that we can expand it into other departments at the school sites within our district. Whether it's ed- tech contracts, whether it's contracts on the admin services sides, it literally can live anywhere. This is not a model that is not, you know, we've been using tutoring as the example throughout our time together, but it is not unique to just tutoring. As we branch out, we can branch this out into other contract opportunities. We can really focus on what's important to us and how to maximize our dollars to reach the most students and have the greatest impact.

Bianca Barquin:

Amazing. Before we sign off, it's time for our amplifier acknowledgement segment. Jennifer, if you could amplify the message or lesson from one educator or leader, who's made a significant impact in your journey, who would it be and what is that resonating message?

Jennifer Cisneros:

Yeah, so I was a very young leader and my journey was really has started with a manager mindset.

Jennifer Cisneros:

Like I think you know, we, I think we all had an image of what leadership looks like and really at that time when I was younger and growing and really learning, I see now I was more of a manager mindset.

Jennifer Cisneros:

But my old CEO, I worked for the Boys and Girls Club and, interestingly enough, I was a club kid who turned summer staff, volunteer summer staff and, like I grew up with this organization and all throughout that time Pat Halberstadt, was our CEO and I got to know her in various levels, from a kid to, you know, a growing professional, and eventually served on her executive leadership team. And one of the things that just really stuck with me about her and what she really taught me was that people are people first and that the way to truly lead was through relationships and empathy. And through those lessons is when I really started to shift from a manager mindset to a leader mindset and that it's really about people and how we're guiding people to where they want to be and investing in them as individuals. So she's somebody who has stuck with me for a long time and even though I left the organization, she's still always with me.

Bianca Barquin:

That is evident in every single interaction that I have with you, Jennifer, s o thank you. Your insights today have been nothing short of enlightening. It's evident that SAUSD is on the cusp of a transformative journey and we're all eager to witness the ripple effects of these changes on our students lives. To our listeners, as we amplify leadership and innovation, let's remember that at the heart of every decision, every strategy, is our undying commitment to our students. Thank you for joining us on SAUSD's Amplifying Leadership and, until the next time, keep leading, keep innovating and keep amplifying.