SAUSD's Amplifying Leadership Podcast

10. Crafting Characters, Changing Lives: Inside Ernesto Cisneros’s Creative Mind, Part 1

• Bianca Barquin • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Ever wondered how stories of resilience and struggle can inspire young minds? Here's a golden chance to peek into the diary of Ernesto Cisneros, an acclaimed author and educator, as he reveals how his personal journey has shaped his writing. He shares his trials in getting published, the significance of diverse representation in literature, and how his narratives have made a profound impact on students, propelling them to dream big and find their own voice.

Engage with Ernesto as he navigates through a myriad of themes ranging from overcoming self-doubt to addressing complex topics in children's books. Listen to how he drew inspiration from real-life experiences and people to create relatable characters, and his soul-stirring journey from a child in Santa Ana to a nationally recognized author. Ernesto's determination to maintain a rigorous writing schedule and his relentless pursuit of his passion are nothing short of inspirational. His story is a testament to the power of dedication, resilience, and the transformative impact of literature.

Ernesto's journey doesn't stop here. His diligent efforts to amplify diverse voices in the publishing industry, his reflections on the influence of his classroom experiences on his writing, and the way he gives life to complex themes in children's books are truly captivating. The episode wraps up with a sneak peek into his upcoming projects and the legacy he wishes to leave behind. So, join us as we embark on this journey with Ernesto Cisneros, celebrating resilience, creativity, and the power of storytelling in education. 

Part 1 of 2

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Bianca Barquin:

Hello and welcome to another episode of SAUSD's Amplifying Leadership. I'm Bianca Barquin, your host, and today we're venturing into the world of storytelling and education with a very special guest. Joining us today is Ernesto Cisneros, a dedicated teacher in our Santa Ana Unified School District and the nationally acclaimed author of Efrén Divided and Falling Short. Ernesto's journey from growing up in Santa Ana to becoming an award-winning author offers a unique perspective on resilience, creativity and commitment to our community. Let's dive into his story and learn how his experiences shape the lives of his students and readers. Ernesto, welcome to Amplifying Leadership. Let's start at the beginning. Can you share what it was like growing up in Santa Ana and how it influenced your decision to become a teacher?

Ernesto Cisneros:

So growing up I kind of had the idea that I would like to be a teacher someday. But I always felt that I wanted to go out and do something first and gain some experience and then go back, because I felt like I didn't have anything to share with the kids and I thought that if I went out and I did something and became someone, then I can come back and give it back to the community. Things just worked out a little strange for me, but yeah, I know it's been a wonderful experience. I remember in second grade we used to have a year-round school and when I was off of school I didn't really have anything to do because my parents were always at work. And so I remember going over to Miss Souter and just volunteering in her classroom at Fremont Elementary. So I always worked with kids. I remember even my fifth grade teacher, she.. h er teacher's assistant, she would have me take care of her kids and she would hire me for that. And so while it was just very natural to work with people and so teaching just felt very natural, but I did go off and I pursued a career in film. The industry just was a little... i t wasn't as nice as teaching. Let's just put it that way.

Ernesto Cisneros:

And so I came back and I did feel a little sad that I had not gone off and pursued something before going to the classroom. So when students were asking me things about writing, I always felt almost embarrassed. I didn't trust the advice that I was giving them, because, well, who am I to give them this advice? And I always just thought I wish I could have done something so that when the kiddos come to my classroom and you know like, for example, if I became a published author, they'd be able to see the book behind my desk. And that was pretty much just a dream. I wanted to have that book on my shelf so I can go back to the classroom and then teach. And then they ask you something. It's like yeah, see, I did this. So maybe, you know, it would validate the advice that I was giving the kiddos.

Bianca Barquin:

Thank you so much for sharing and thank you for your authenticity. I think that's amazing. So, Ernesto, in your books, the characters that you develop are incredibly relatable and vivid. Can you share who or what inspired these characters? Do they reflect experiences or people from your own life in Santa Ana?

Ernesto Cisneros:

Yes, they do. So I actually struggled to sell any of my books. I actually wrote many books and I went about 14 years without being able to sell anything, and the comment that I was receiving more often than not was we're not connecting with your characters. And so I was thinking, ok, so how do I get people to like the characters and the stories that I'm writing? And so I thought, ok, let me go back to the people who were in my life, who meant something to me.

Ernesto Cisneros:

And so one of the first people that came to my mind was Efrén Nava, who was my best friend from Fremont. We were together from kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, and fifth grade and we weren't separated until my parents didn't let me stay at Lathrop, just because at the time it was a little bit of a tough school and they were a little worried about me. So they pulled me from there and I ended up going to Our Lady of Pillar instead. But I just remember how, I mean he was kind of like a brother to me. I mean I feel devastated every time I talk about him. It really hurts right now because he passed away last year. He died a war hero, a national war hero, and I'm just very glad that he got to see the book and that we got to speak before he did pass. But we had none of that toxic masculinity thing going on when we were kids and he was kind of like a big brother. He always protected me and so when I wanted to find a character who was going to be very relatable, he was definitely the first person I thought of.

Ernesto Cisneros:

But then I've also gotten over to kiddos in my classroom. I have a sign in my classroom that says be careful what you say or do, or you could end up in one of my books. And so I'm always paying attention and I'm always listening, and sometimes I'll hear the kiddos speaking and I'm like, excuse me, what was that that you just said? And then they think they're in trouble and I'm like, no, no, no, you're not in trouble. I need to know from my books and so they'll share with me, and so they're always keeping me educated. So I've actually incorporated some of my students, parents, people on the bus. Anywhere I go, I literally just find characters. Everywhere I go, I'm just looking for interesting people and that's pretty much what I write about.

Bianca Barquin:

I love that. Thank you so much. So you've started to talk about it a little bit. I know that writing a book and getting it published is no small feat. Could you walk us through your writing process and how you navigated the publishing world?

Ernesto Cisneros:

Oh, my goodness, that's a very excellent question. So if I'm being completely transparent about the experience, it was really, really difficult. I was not the best student academically. I think that if you were to look at my records in high school, if I had missed three more days of school, I think I probably would have been at 50-50 attendance, and it's just because I'd never, really... I never saw opportunities for me.

Ernesto Cisneros:

I always tell people that I think I grew up with a sense of disentitlement and so when people would speak to you and say you could be a doctor, you could be a lawyer, you can go to the university, you can do all of these things, I always just thought they were referring to somebody else. I never thought that those things would apply to me because I, honestly, I came from a family of service people, so my mom worked in the factory, my dad cut grass for a living, my uncles were mechanics, uncles and aunts they worked in hotels. We were just there to service other people and so when people mentioned, go to high school, get your grades up and you can go to any university that you set your mind to, I didn't think that was something that was possible for me. I thought that someday... my dad used to wear a uniform. It was the blue pants and then the baby blue shirt, and he had his name on there, Frank, on the top. I always just saw myself wearing the same uniform someday.

Ernesto Cisneros:

So I was not the best student growing up and, honestly, people ask me like 14 years, why didn't you give up? I had never tried my best at anything before and just once I was kind of curious okay, what are you capable of? What can you do if you set your mind to it? And so writing became it, and I would wake up early in the morning. It'd be 5 am and all I'm thinking is okay, one more hour, I can go back to sleep, I can hit snooze and get one more hour in there. And then I would picture Kobe Bryant and the stories of him playing basketball, you know, practicing at 4 in the morning, 4:30. And then going back at noon and having to practice with the team.

Ernesto Cisneros:

And so I was thinking about that mamba mentality and I would tell myself okay, you know what, why don't you go ahead and tell yourself that you would rather get one more hour of sleep than fulfill your dream? And I always refused and I said no, I will not say that. And I would get up and I would write, and then, during nutrition, I would write. During lunch, I would write after school, before I had to pick up my kiddos, I would write a little bit, and then, right before bed, I would do the same thing. Okay, do you really want to go to bed now, or can you spend half an hour or an hour working? And if I was leaning towards going to bed, I would just ask myself the same question: would you rather go get a little bit more sleep or fulfill your dream? And so that that was the mentality that I took with Efrén.

Ernesto Cisneros:

With all that said, though, I did get pretty sick after I wrote Efren. I was pretty much exhausted, and I've learned to change the way that I write. So nowadays I write one hour a day, and I learned that if you write one hour a day, excluding weekends, you actually would write 50,000 words in a year. A novel, that's about 50,000 words without all that pressure and without making yourself sick and enjoying the process a lot more. So that's kind of my routine nowadays, and I don't pressure myself. I now understand that part of the writing process is going to the gym, going for a swim, going for a run, going to the grocery store, going to Costco is also part of the writing process, because you also need a downtime to process and your brain needs to rest, and so I feel like I'm writing 24-7, all the time now, and I don't apologize for the days that I don't put any words on paper.

Bianca Barquin:

Wow, that is truly inspirational. I love the resiliency, your persistence. I love the fact that you have figured it out, right? You figured out what actually works for you, and that was actually part of the next question I was going to ask you about what challenges did you face while writing these books and how did you overcome them? So if there's anything else that you want to share there, I would love if you would do that. But the other part of the question is tell me about publishing and how did that work and what advice would you give people.

Ernesto Cisneros:

So one of the things that sadly made everything more challenging was that every once in a while, I would find a publisher who, or an editor who, would be interested in the work, and they would read the manuscript and they would tell me you know, we really enjoyed the book.

Ernesto Cisneros:

Unfortunately, we already have a Latino at our house, and so there's different ways of finding people who are looking for Latino stories, and sometimes I would find an editor who would put something on social media saying we're always looking for diverse authors, and so I feel like, if I contacted them, I'm like here, I am here, I am right here.

Ernesto Cisneros:

You said you're looking for a Latino author, I'm right here, and I would submit my work to them, and then you would get that, "Well, I'm sorry, we already have somebody in the house, and it's a shame because you would never hear that being said to a white person. I'm sorry, we have a white author already, so we're not going to be able to represent you, and so that's one of the biggest challenges, and another is that, unfortunately, like right now, we are getting a lot more Latinos being published, but they're not being pushed, and so, even though their books are coming out, they're not getting the support that everybody else gets, and so their success is being limited right from the very beginning, and so I think that's something that we need to change too.

Bianca Barquin:

Thank you for sharing that. Very important. How do you think literature, particularly books like yours, can impact the mindset and aspirations of young students, especially those facing similar challenges as your characters?

Ernesto Cisneros:

First of all, I know that sometimes most people who are listening to this have heard the whole idea of having books like that are mirror books and window books and sliding door books. But I feel like that's not enough anymore. Like I said earlier, I grew up with a sense of disentitlement and just seeing yourself reflected back in a book isn't enough, because many times these books are not... t They don't portray us in a positive light, and so I feel that having a mirror book isn't enough. We almost need kind of like a glam mirror you know the ones with the little lights all the way around? Because sometimes I mean, if you look at a mirror and it has bad lighting, you're not going to like what you see, and we need the, we need books that we're actually, you know, put us in very nice light so we look at ourselves and like, hey, we look pretty good and that's what I try to write. So I always want to write books that encourage people to be the best versions of themselves.

Ernesto Cisneros:

I want to show people how things could be. With my second book, Falling Short...

Ernesto Cisneros:

it deals with a little bit about toxic masculinity. It deals with friendship. It deals with issues of self-acceptance, but I always showcase the behavior of the people that I'm talking to, I always showcase the behavior that I wish I would see in all kids, and part of the reason I wrote that book was because, as a teacher, I realized that we are very quick as educators to give accolades to athletes and people, scholars, who have 4.0s, but I've never seen anybody really go out and give accolades to a child who shares their lunch with somebody else. So it's just a really good friend or very kind and very thoughtful, and so I think that sometimes we need to highlight those kids. So my second book was my attempt at highlighting those kids and again, when they see themselves and like, wow, they, you know, they actually do care about each other. They're more like siblings than they are friends. I'm hoping the kids will see that behavior, see it in themselves and be like, okay, I want to be like these characters a little bit more. So that's always the hope.

Bianca Barquin:

I love that, thank you. Now let's move into recognitions. So receiving awards like the Pura Belpré Medal and the SCBWI Crystal Kite Award is no small achievement. Can you tell us about your journey to gaining such prestigious recognition and how it has influenced your work and interaction with students?

Ernesto Cisneros:

So receiving those awards first of all, they were a gift. However, it's very surreal. I'm a very shy and introverted person, and so the accolades is, part of me is not comfortable with them yet. However, what I do like about them is that they're very validating to the experience. So, for example, when my parents came here, my mom was only able to attend fourth grade when she was in México, she had to drop out already to help out her siblings, and she was never given the opportunity to attend school, and I just cannot imagine that her and my father decided to leave the country without having any money, without speaking the language and really having much of a plan. They just decided we need to change the trajectory of our families, and the only way to do that is to go to the U. S., and so when I did win the Pura Belpré, and I have some video of this today we keep it within the family though, is when my parents watched me win the award, and I remember my mom turning to my dad. She said Ya ves pancho, sí valió la pena. See, Frank, it was worth it, and that was the beauty of the awards. It's a recognition not for me, but for the sacrifices that they made. That's why every time I have an award, I feel like it's really their award.

Ernesto Cisneros:

My mom has five children and every single one of us, we all, have not only a college degree, we all have a master's degree. And the first thing that my mom did when she saw that we got our first degrees is that she took them from us and she put them up on her wall and she said I worked really hard for those and all we could do was nod and we were all ya, you did. Here you go. So I always tell people that my mom has five degrees and five master's degrees and again, it's just very validating. It's validating for so many different reasons, for all the sacrifices. I've always felt really guilty if I went over to my office to go work or if I told my wife you know what do you mind if I stay a few hours after this chapter that I really want to finish, and I felt like I was taking time away from the family, and so when you win an award, it's kind of like okay, you know what? That time it wasn't just a dream, it was something that was worth the while.

Ernesto Cisneros:

So those awards are very meaningful and, plus, they also opened a lot of doors when Efrén Divided, before it was purchased, there was a publisher one of the big five publishers at the time who was interested in the book and they took it to the acquisition board. So what happens is there's an editor who will present to the business committee and they have to present their plan on how they would market this book and whether they think it would sell or not. And so they brought Efrén Divided to the table and they decided that we don't think we could sell too many copies of Efrén. And so they passed and fast forward a few, a little bit of time now and I heard from a very good, reliable source that not so long ago a book went to the same acquisition board and that now Efrén Divided was being used as a comp title to prove that books like this can be successful. And that is so special because it's because of those awards.

Ernesto Cisneros:

Those awards do help to bring attention to the books and many times our books are not being pushed. We're at the very bottom of the totem pole and when you win an award, all of a sudden people kind of take notice like what's this shiny sticker on the front of the cover? And so it just helps bring a lot more readers. And again, my biggest thing right now is about okay, I got my foot through the door. Why would I close it for the people behind me? I'm going to open the door as wide as I can and I want as many people to be on the journey with me. Otherwise, what's the point?

Bianca Barquin:

I absolutely love that. I love the fact that every award that you receive, you're thinking about not only folks within your life that sacrifice so much to give you those opportunities, but you're thinking about everybody else who's trying to do something like you and opening those doors for them. I think it's amazing. So, Ernesto, as a teacher and an author, how do you integrate your professional experiences into your storytelling? I know you told me a little bit about your students, right? Do your classrooms, interactions, fuel your writing, and how much do they?

Ernesto Cisneros:

They do, completely. I have a lot of people that ask me are you going to retire now that, you know, you're a successful author and the answer is no. But it's kind of strange because as a teacher, it's very difficult to find the time and the energy to write. But if I left teaching I wouldn't have any reason to write. So I kind of need the energy of the kiddos. They're the ones that kind of help motivate me and keep me cool and current, although cool and current' s probably not the best words to be using, but they teach me all the current lingo and everything that's going on. And they talk to me and they tell me oh, these are the new apps and oh, have you watched this cartoon? Because everybody's watching this cartoon. So I go home and I'm like okay, I'm going to tune into this cartoon and learn about this too. So they're keeping me current too and, honestly, they're my best editors as well. So whenever I do have... like right now I'm working on my other book and I actually printed out some copies of the story and I handed it out to a couple of the kiddos and I ask them, be as honest as you possibly can. And they are, kids are incredibly honest. I know people say, oh, they're your students, they're going to be nice. No, no, no, no, no. They are incredibly honest and I love that about them. And, in fact, with Efrén, I wrote Efrén Divided in 2016.

Ernesto Cisneros:

It was during the elections and that was the fastest book I ever wrote. It took me about six months and at that point I had actually given up on the industry. I just didn't tell my agent this. We had submitted to everybody. And she called me one night and said congratulations, we have just run out of anybody... e verybody in the industry, there's nobody else to submit to. You've been rejected by pretty much everybody. There's nobody left. Why don't you go write something else and hone your craft a little bit more? And I said that's a good idea. So I'm going to write a practice novel.

Ernesto Cisneros:

I was watching and listening to all the horrible things that were being said about Latinos during the 2016 elections and I knew I wanted to write a glam story to kind of help the kids to see themselves in a better light, but I didn't have a topic. One of my students asked if he could speak to me after school, told me that his dad had been taken away by I. C. E. that weekend. I was devastated. I wanted to have a redo because I didn't like the advice I gave him and I wanted to offer him a friend, and that's where Efrén was born.

Ernesto Cisneros:

So I started writing that book and because I had no intention of publishing the book, I was free. I didn't have to worry about the rules, the constructs, what I should do, what I shouldn't do. I was able to incorporate students, teachers, my community taquerias, people in the hood and work in the food trucks, Salvador Park, everything I normally wouldn't have written about because I thought there wasn't a place for them in literature, which I was very wrong about. I wrote about that and I wrote about it with no apologies and when I finished I gave it to my kiddos and I thought that was it, because I used to teach creative writing to the kids and we would have critique groups and so we would share each other's work and I was just thinking they're going to read the work and they'll see from my mistakes. My dream was that one day they were going to write a book themselves. Somebody would write a book, and at the end they were going to put it there in the back, in the acknowledgement section, they would say dedicated to Mr. Cisneros, who taught me everything he knew about writing, and I thought that was going to be my 15 minutes of fame right there.

Ernesto Cisneros:

And something really bizarre happened that day, because my kids read it and they're like no, this is something special, and we'd never read a book like this before.

Ernesto Cisneros:

I was thinking, oh yeah, I'm your teacher, you're just being nice. They're like no, no, no. And I was thinking about this, like no, they were seeing themselves, their neighborhood, they were seeing themselves being valued, and so I remember calling my agent and I probably should have done this, but I actually apologized to her because I remember telling her you asked me to go write another book and to hone my craft and write something that we might be able to sell, and instead, in 2016, I go over there and I write a book about an immigrant family which is, at that point, I thought would be impossible to sell, and so I told my students on my guys, look what's going on in the world. Do you really think there's a place for a story like this in the world? And they all said yes. So I said, okay, I would just to be served as a good example, good role model, I'm gonna send this to my agent, and I never imagined that two weeks later we would receive an email from the vice president of Harper Collins with an offer.

Bianca Barquin:

Wow, amazing. I think that there's... t here's something that's so compelling about what you said, when you said I felt free and then I started doing all of these things, inc orporating characters, things around the neighborhood, all these other aspects that you may not have included before. And I read the book, it's... it's truly compelling and it's so authentic and it's so relatable. I can understand. Do you feel different now as an author and... and is it changing the way you write?

Ernesto Cisneros:

Oh, dramatically, yes, yes, yes, a thousand fold. Now, every time that I write, I don't worry about the rules, and it's really interesting because before you're published, if you do things that are different, people will criticize, oh, that's not the way it's done. But once you're published, it's like, oh, that's an artistic approach, that... that's impressive, that you're doing it this way, and so now I do feel a lot more free, but I will always, always write with diverse characters. My next novel and I know it's... some people worry about writing books are gonna be "sell more copies.

Ernesto Cisneros:

I have LGBTQ characters in my books. I have people of different backgrounds, different ages, and I, you know I have a n autistic character with my next book. I just try to represent the kids that I teach and the community, and when you go outside, I'm gonna see different people, different backgrounds, so why would I erase them when I'm writing about them in a book about the world? It just doesn't make any sense, and so I don't worry if I do get banned someday. That's okay, that's... I'm writing the books for the, for the kiddos.

Bianca Barquin:

And we'll always be reading, so... So it's a perfect lead into our next question. With your strong support for ethnic studies and inclusive narratives, how do you see your role as an author and educator in shaping a more inclusive and empathetic school environment?

Ernesto Cisneros:

To answer that question the best I can, I, right away, I started thinking about my high school teacher, Sharon Saxton, and the difference that she made in my life, and part of that I'll never forget the day that she brought Helena Maria Viram ontes and she wrote this beautiful book called The Moths and she brought her to the classroom and there was a scene where she's giving her abuelita a bath and it was so tender and beautiful. But aside from that, she was speaking to her in Spanglish and, and I had never seen that before, and, and it was the first time that I, my mind kind of like my ears, perked up and I'm like, oh, wait, a minute, is this possible? Can this be done? Wait, a person can make a living by writing? It was just that introduction and again, going back from somebody who grew up the sense of disentitlement, that was powerful.

Ernesto Cisneros:

So when, to me, in my classroom right now, we're reading Tumble by Celia C. Pérez, and it's an amazing, amazing book, and my kids are eating it up and, and again, they love hearing people who look like them, who speak like them, and it includes luchadors too, and it's a female character who's actually going to be going into the luchador world, and so it just breaks so many boundaries and it's so refreshing to see and I think it's super powerful, and I don't, I don't know if I, even today, I understand the full benefit and the power of just seeing yourself, and I guess it goes beyond just seeing yourself as seeing yourself being valued and your experiences being valued, and I think that's what's missing right now. Announcer: Hey, there, Amplifiers. We had such a wonderful conversation with Ernesto Cisneros that this will be the first of two parts. Join us next week to hear the rest of Ernesto's amazing story. See you then.